tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post5680363472461749217..comments2024-02-08T07:33:49.907-08:00Comments on Re-Imagineering: Why?Mr Bankshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12952506736745891323noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-32397931615899273342008-04-16T23:27:00.000-07:002008-04-16T23:27:00.000-07:00So if what BSDB says is true about Tony, wouldn't ...<I>So if what BSDB says is true about Tony, wouldn't this whole fiasco pretty much be Marty Sklar's idea? Woah.</I><BR/><BR/>Well... Marty was the primary reason Tom Fitzgerald promoted to Exec VP of Creative Development in 2001, around the time Tony was replaced by Barry Braverman as creative exec of DL Design Studio. And Tom Fitzgerald was still in charge of Creative Development when these changes to small world were given the green light, before Bruce Vaughn took the helm from Tom almost one year ago.<BR/><BR/>Marty's letter was posted to LP the same weekend he was in Paris for the ToT opening at WDS. And Tom Fitzgerald is currently assigned to the DLP resort.<BR/><BR/>Doing the math on this one is easy.judihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415067631504911897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-80734822622252575652008-04-16T09:32:00.000-07:002008-04-16T09:32:00.000-07:00So if what BSDB says is true about Tony, wouldn't ...So if what BSDB says is true about Tony, wouldn't this whole fiasco pretty much be Marty Sklar's idea? Woah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-10255399244880813432008-04-16T06:51:00.000-07:002008-04-16T06:51:00.000-07:00Kauai is an Island that is one part of the State o...<I>Kauai is an Island that is one part of the State of Hawaii.</I><BR/><BR/>Wow. Thanks for that! I had no idea that Kauai was part of the <B>Hawaiian Islands</B>. <BR/><BR/>I guess I thought Hawaii was a lone island in the middle of the Pacific, which was also some kind of ancient name for Kauai and got them confused. And isn't Hawaii also our nation's 49th state? Alaska falls in there somewhere but I'm not sure where. Apparently, I'm not smart enough to figure it out.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Any other non-essential items from my post you'd care to pick apart? Personally, I'd rather discuss the idiocy of the changes being made to Anaheim's small world than find fault with my less-than-precise diction. But you obviously do not.judihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415067631504911897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-72258170866905565062008-04-14T19:47:00.000-07:002008-04-14T19:47:00.000-07:00>>I'm tired of people referring to the Polynesia r...>>I'm tired of people referring to the Polynesia room as "Hawaii" with regard to the Lilo & Stitch addition. Lilo & Stitch specifically took place in Kauai, which last time I checked was a state in the US, not a country in the South Pacific. <<<BR/><BR/>Kauai is an Island that is one part of the State of Hawaii.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-37946538237953378572008-04-13T09:10:00.000-07:002008-04-13T09:10:00.000-07:00We'll never really know, but it IS his responsibil...<I>We'll never really know, but it IS his responsibility to execute someone's intent in his own way in the park. Disneyland is his turf and the people creatively report to him, so whatever you see has his fingerprints of approval on it.</I><BR/><BR/>Not completely. Tony returned to creative control of DL less than one year ago, and this small world rehab was conceived of and green lit before then, when Tom Fitzgerald was in charge. Once a project receives the green light, it's difficult for "local management" to make alterations or halt it completely. Those types of decisions come down from Rasulo's office. And no way the current leadership in P&R will go against the marketeers on changes that have the potential to sell more merchandise.<BR/><BR/><I>Well that's part of what makes people suspicious. When this project was allegedly conceived, eight years ago, Baxter was not in his current position. </I><BR/><BR/>Actually, Tony was in charge of the DL Design Studio, eight years ago. He lost the position to Barry Braverman in 2001, after DCA opened to (well deserved) harsh criticism, which made Braverman an easy target for dismissal. So his buddies at the top of the WDI food chain put Barry in charge of the DDS and kicked Tony back to Glendale.<BR/><BR/>What's disturbing about Marty's references to Tony and the original plan from eight years ago, is that the plan moving forward today has little to do with the ideas Tony envisioned. Adding the Disney characters to Anaheim's small world is a outgrowth of marketeering's decision a few years back, to put them in HKDL's version. The original plan to plus the attraction was apparently more about making small world's environment "richer," such as flooding the room a la PotC, like MK's small world.<BR/><BR/>As I mentioned in previous comment, at least one of the upcoming changes was obviously not part of the plan from eight years ago. Lilo & Stitch opened in theatres in 2002. Why would anyone at WDI want to add Lilo & Stitch to the Polynesian room in 2000, when the film was still under development and no one knew how well it would be received by the public? For me, this is further evidence that Baxter's ideas to plus small world eight years ago have little semblance to what is being altered and added right now.<BR/><BR/>And FWIW... I'm tired of people referring to the Polynesia room as "Hawaii" with regard to the Lilo & Stitch addition. Lilo & Stitch specifically took place in Kauai, which last time I checked was a state in the US, not a country in the South Pacific. And while we're at it, Pocahontas lived in the eastern part of the US, not Canada. Why are the Pocahontas characters being added to Canada? At least the Brother Bear characters are from the Pacific Northwest; they would have been a better fit. But of course, Brother Bear was not successful at the box office, so those characters would be more difficult to sell at the exit gift shop.<BR/><BR/>And Sklar claims these changes aren't about merchandise? Gimme a freakin' break!<BR/><BR/><BR/>If Disney is so damned hellbent on adding characters to small world, couldn't they at least be accurate about their placement? Oh that's right... it's not about the various countries or cultures anymore. It's about showcasing Disney property to promote marketeering opportunities. Who cares about all these "little native children," attired in all their "little native costumes," singing in all their "quaint and exotic native languages"? Nobody can understand their words, anyway, so why not throw in some songs that folks will recognize from various Disney films, right? Plus, they'll come in handy to help those bored family members locate the various Disney characters who are oh-so-subtly placed throughout the attraction, who'd go unnoticed otherwise. Maybe hearing each character's trademark tune will make the game easier to play. Yeah, that's the ticket!<BR/><BR/>8^P<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Someone, anyone, please tell me...<BR/><BR/>what exactly is John Lasseter's role as Principle Creative Advisor, if not to <I>advise</I> Imagineering against boneheaded changes such as these? Why even have Lasseter in the role, if WDI execs aren't going to heed his advice?<BR/><BR/>John and Dr Ed and the Sacred Seven of Pixar should have been assigned as agents of change for both Imagineering and Feature Animation. Most of the original Imagineers were from the studios, while most of today's Imagineers do not have animation backgrounds. And execs in Burbank still wonder why Under New Management went so horribly, horribly wrong.<BR/><BR/>Seems like a no-brainer to me. Bring in great storytellers like the artists at Pixar to get Imagineering back on track. You know, all those folks who've been leaving their very public negative criticisms on another blog about these unnecessary changes to small world. <BR/><BR/>We get it. Why can't Iger and the Board?judihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415067631504911897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-54988593581826949452008-04-09T15:28:00.000-07:002008-04-09T15:28:00.000-07:00>>We'll never really know, but it IS his responsib...>>We'll never really know, but it IS his responsibility to execute someone's intent in his own way in the park. Disneyland is his turf and the people creatively report to him, so whatever you see has his fingerprints of approval on it. My guess is that this was at least partly his idea as Tarzan's Treehouse was more of a radical shift from tradition, was something he conceived and was proud of.<<<BR/>Well that's part of what makes people suspicious. When this project was allegedly conceived, eight years ago, Baxter was not in his current position. This idea existed before the big management shifts that happened at Walt Disney Imagineering.drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00314074257220121808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-78952387077378604562008-04-09T14:09:00.000-07:002008-04-09T14:09:00.000-07:00>>There seems to be some doubt as to whether this ...>>There seems to be some doubt as to whether this project actually originated with Baxter as stated.<<<BR/><BR/>We'll never really know, but it IS his responsibility to execute someone's intent in his own way in the park. Disneyland is his turf and the people creatively report to him, so whatever you see has his fingerprints of approval on it. My guess is that this was at least partly his idea as Tarzan's Treehouse was more of a radical shift from tradition, was something he conceived and was proud of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-1413716139487306032008-04-09T13:58:00.000-07:002008-04-09T13:58:00.000-07:00"Anyone out there open minded enough to entertain ..."Anyone out there open minded enough to entertain any of this?"<BR/><BR/>Nah. Not me. <BR/><BR/>I saw the Disney character dolls in the HKDL version of Small World and I thought, the only thing those dolls are missing is a price tag.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-51823184642124213702008-04-09T12:52:00.000-07:002008-04-09T12:52:00.000-07:00>>After looking at the those HKDL pictures I think...>>After looking at the those HKDL pictures I think any parent and child would enjoy discovering the characters in the show together. I think the guests will prove this out over the handful of offended purists.<<<BR/>Enjoyment is not the issue. What is being enjoyed is not from how the attraction was designed. If a showcase of characters is what is desired, then a showcase of characters should be designs. Instead this is twisting one attraction to suit a desire it was never designed to suit.<BR/><BR/>>> but along the way you discover some familiar things and the international origins of the stories the films are based on.<<<BR/>"it's a small world" is supposed to be very anti-familiar. The familiar becomes the object of focus. This is the same psychological principle that is at play when we see objects in the clouds. Yes, there are some landmarks, but they are used to identify a location.<BR/><BR/>The characters do not identify the location. They have their own costumes dictated by their appearance in their respective films. Their stories have also been augmented from the original. The Disney stories are not the ones told by the Grimm brothers, Anderson, Perrault, Kipling, or any of the other storytellers whose story has been adapted. So what is seen is the American version of Cinderella, the American version of Mulan, the American version of whomever. Yes, the Disney versions are known around the world, but it does not change their history.<BR/><BR/>Then there are the stories that do not originate from where they take place. <I>The Lion King</I> takes place in Africa, but many would be sooner to identify the story with <I>Hamlet</I>, and English story that takes place in Denmark.<BR/><BR/>>> I'm going to go out on a limb and trust Tony's 30 years of experience or whatever and expect the integration to be even better than HKDL.<<<BR/>There seems to be some doubt as to whether this project actually originated with Baxter as stated.drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00314074257220121808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-78176102042338262942008-04-09T09:50:00.000-07:002008-04-09T09:50:00.000-07:00Disney, show me something you've done RIGHT lately...Disney, show me something you've done RIGHT lately before asking me to embrace any changes you want to make.Flerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04101463542972261369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-74467665634288481682008-04-09T08:51:00.000-07:002008-04-09T08:51:00.000-07:00A dissenting voice in the crowd.After looking at t...A dissenting voice in the crowd.<BR/><BR/>After looking at the those HKDL pictures I think any parent and child would enjoy discovering the characters in the show together. I think the guests will prove this out over the handful of offended purists. I'm just trying to be open minded (and this may not be the place to do that). <BR/><BR/>The story and message is visually obvious and drilled into you, so it's not like you exit not getting the idea of what the ride is about, but along the way you discover some familiar things and the international origins of the stories the films are based on. Just as you would share with your child the Eiffel Tower or the Taj Mahal and relate them in their proper places. Small kids do ask their parents what country they are looking at. Kid's see Mary's work as childlike as their own. They focus on the elements and try to figure out what country they are from in their own way. The Characters may help with that. Alice is a good example as she is in the style of the show and could have been a tribute to Lewis Carroll for all we know. Remember that the stories are cultural, pre date Disney and are native to their countries. (I'd lose the Pixar characters or Stitch). I'm going to go out on a limb and trust Tony's 30 years of experience or whatever and expect the integration to be even better than HKDL.<BR/><BR/>I'm over pressing the panic button. Thoughts? Anyone out there open minded enough to entertain any of this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-81964770599756382042008-04-09T01:12:00.000-07:002008-04-09T01:12:00.000-07:00> Intellectually the arguments made here are all s...<I>> Intellectually the arguments made here are all sound, but visually this whole thing is such a minor speed bump on the autobahn of other design travesties. You barely even notice they ARE Disney characters, especially the dolls. Compared to Tarzan's Treehouse, this is nothing. <</I><BR/><BR/>What Disney is doing to it's a small world is a travesty of the heart, more than of the mind or eye, although the latter two are vulgar enough. Certainly, far uglier and more thoughtless bastardizations of the Disney heritage have been made by the company's recent management in their theme parks and animated videos. <BR/><BR/>But the changes to it's a small world strike at the heart of what made classic Disney product so beloved around the globe, and trumpet the continued heartlessness of the post-Eisner regime.mr wigginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05690712121710850903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-23978648424200235402008-04-08T18:55:00.000-07:002008-04-08T18:55:00.000-07:00"I for one find the Hong Kong characters visually ..."I for one find the Hong Kong characters visually disturbing, repugnant, repellent and ugly."<BR/><BR/>Sounds like a clerk's rant from across the Shoe Department at Barneys. You are the best Mr Banks :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-51699305517209897602008-04-08T18:32:00.000-07:002008-04-08T18:32:00.000-07:00I for one find the Hong Kong characters visually d...I for one find the Hong Kong characters visually disturbing, repugnant, repellent and ugly. Putting aside the argument that they don't belong there in the first place, they now appear like peculiar naive Disney toys on a shelf begging to be purchased. <BR/><BR/>And if they're so un-noticeable, all the more reason to remove them.<BR/><BR/>But I notice them. And they're incredibly unpleasant to me.Mr Bankshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12952506736745891323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-81910650588559907202008-04-08T18:19:00.000-07:002008-04-08T18:19:00.000-07:00I just looked at the HKDL images.http://disneyandm...I just looked at the HKDL images.<BR/>http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2008/03/first-pictures-of-hong-kong-disneyland.html<BR/><BR/> I encourage all to do so. Intellectually the arguments made here are all sound, but visually this whole thing is such a minor speed bump on the autobahn of other design travesties. You barely even notice they ARE Disney characters, especially the dolls. Compared to Tarzan's Treehouse, this is nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-20457066134458791462008-04-07T17:10:00.000-07:002008-04-07T17:10:00.000-07:00What is perhaps most frustrating is that Disney is...What is perhaps most frustrating is that Disney is CONSTANTLY wasting money on things that are not broken. Witness the POTC "upgrades", the infamous Hat, and the even more infamous Wand.<BR/><BR/>These things generated NOTHING of business value, and actually were net loss in creative value. They exist solely as marketing hooks to hang a new campaign on -- value that could have come from any source.<BR/><BR/>Imagine if the same dollars had been spent to improve something that actually needed improving. We would still have POTC (albeit without Captain Jack), we would still have a pristine Spaceship Earth, and we would still have a great beacon for the end of Hollywood Boulevard -- AND we would have the new thing, whatever those dollars had been directed to.<BR/><BR/>Sigh.Shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10716615984558559910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-15040520275707629342008-04-07T11:54:00.000-07:002008-04-07T11:54:00.000-07:00Recently posted photos of the characters in Hong K...Recently posted photos of the characters in Hong Kong's it's a small world:<BR/><BR/>http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2008/03/first-pictures-of-hong-kong-disneyland.html<BR/><BR/>Cast includes international folklore icons Woody and Jesse, Ariel and Flounder, Lilo and Stitch, Cinderella & Prince Charming, Aladdin and Jasmine, Pocahontas and Meeko and Aristokitten Marie. <BR/>(...seen elsewhere, Mulan, Peter Pan and Wendy). Also it shows the new American scene for Hong Kong.Merlin Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13397520005969644808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-50080808077184989212008-04-07T11:34:00.000-07:002008-04-07T11:34:00.000-07:00Tuckenie wrote:"2nd) Don't even pretend to know "w...Tuckenie wrote:<BR/><BR/>"2nd) Don't even pretend to know "what Walt would've wanted". You have no earthly idea what Walt Disney would want and neither does anybody else living on this planet. For we know IASW would've been out of the parks decades ago under Walt."<BR/><BR/>I don't disagree with the second part -- for all we know the ride might have been removed by Walt Disney.<BR/><BR/>But your first comment is demonstrably false.<BR/><BR/>If Walt Disney wanted Alice in Small World he would have put her in.<BR/><BR/>He put no Disney characters in the ride. Obviously he didn't want to or he would have.rehallaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04298146736808925906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-85349623180849154472008-04-07T10:27:00.000-07:002008-04-07T10:27:00.000-07:00>>Has anyone seen the pics (from Hong Kong)? I had...>>Has anyone seen the pics (from Hong Kong)? I had to look at them a few times to see the changes. The only character I saw that didn't look like a Mary Blair doll was Stitch.<<<BR/>If the characters stick out they steal the show. If they blend in their are, at Hong Kong Disneyland, being pushed as a game of hide and seek. "it's a small world" is neither a showcase of Disney characters or a game of hide and seek. It is a showcase of the children of the world and the Disney characters have absolutely no place there, regardless of how "subtle". If one believes that DIsney would like to add the characters and not advertise them, you are fooling yourself.drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00314074257220121808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-76876398842213037952008-04-07T08:45:00.000-07:002008-04-07T08:45:00.000-07:00It's not really fair to go after Marty for defendi...It's not really fair to go after Marty for defending the design of DCA. What is he supposed to do? Trash Pressler and Eisner's pet project in the press while running WDI? Of course not.<BR/><BR/>"the process has reached a new standard."<BR/><BR/>I think his notion on brainstorming can be taken two ways and as such is truthful. I love it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-7332033132429547282008-04-07T06:50:00.000-07:002008-04-07T06:50:00.000-07:00Has anyone seen the pics (from Hong Kong)? I had ...Has anyone seen the pics (from Hong Kong)? I had to look at them a few times to see the changes. The only character I saw that didn't look like a Mary Blair doll was Stitch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-63769944596589103642008-04-06T22:17:00.000-07:002008-04-06T22:17:00.000-07:00>>Isn’t it Marty who also defended the design of C...>>Isn’t it Marty who also defended the design of California Adventure when it opened?<<<BR/><BR/>"That process begins with what we call our 'Blue Sky' phase, so called because 'the sky's the limit' when Imagineers are brainstorming new ideas. Disney's California Adventure, the last theme-park concept we have developed to date, may suggest that the process has reached a new standard."<BR/>-Marty Sklar as quoted in <I>Designing Disney's Theme Parks: The Architecture of Reassurance</I>drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00314074257220121808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-54853404968668465412008-04-06T20:53:00.000-07:002008-04-06T20:53:00.000-07:00While still quite wary, I have to say I am rather ...While still quite wary, I have to say I am rather relieved by reading Marty Sklar's response -- especially this part:<BR/><BR/>"I’ve heard that we are planning to remove the rainforest, add Mickey and Minnie Mouse, create an “Up with America” tribute, to effectively “marginalize” the Mary Blair style and Walt’s classic (all not true)."<BR/><BR/>As a rainforest fan, I am glad to hear him say unambiguously that they are NOT planning to remove it and replace it with an "Up with America" section. Thank god.<BR/><BR/>"To accomplish our objective, we decided to seamlessly integrate Disney characters into appropriate thematic scenes in the attraction, and do it completely in the distinctive “Mary Blair style.”<BR/><BR/>While still wary -- and, being something of a purist, still probably preferring to keep the original scenes unaltered -- I might be able to live quite well with this if it is done in a subtle, background sort of way -- almost as hidden "spot the allusion" references. <BR/><BR/>As an example, I have to admit that when I heard they were going to add a Mary Blair-designed Alice into the Great Britain scene, I could see the integrity in the choice (whether fully agreeing with it or not): The Alice books really are a British cultural institution, and further, one very much related to the world of children. When one has traveled in England, it becomes clear how ingrained they are in the culture.<BR/><BR/>If other additions can be done with as much thought and care ... <BR/><BR/>Weeelllllll ... maybe ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-36143295021650397792008-04-06T20:16:00.000-07:002008-04-06T20:16:00.000-07:00>>The Pirates ride rehab at the worst is up for de...>>The Pirates ride rehab at the worst is up for debate. I prefer the changes as it gives more of a story and cohesion to the ride. Before that I disliked the PCing of it, in fact I still do, but I'm not offended by Jack Sparrow being added.<<<BR/>But they don't give it cohesion. Everything was set up in <I>Curse of the Black Pearl</I> to make it work. Add Jack as a pirate who is after the treasure, that we have just learned to be cursed. Instead it talked down to the audience (yet again) and assumed they could only understand Jack and Barbossa as enemies and they had the whole thing follow Jack.<BR/><BR/>>>Does that mean we should constantly fight change? We should fear innovation and something different?<<<BR/>The reality is, this is only a change in regards to the attraction. What is taking place has almost been standard operating procedure for some time now. There is nothing new, just the same process being applied over and over again.drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00314074257220121808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22576594.post-59762509091546003162008-04-06T20:00:00.000-07:002008-04-06T20:00:00.000-07:00Brilian post!"Between Tony, our chief designer Kim...Brilian post!<BR/><BR/>"Between Tony, our chief designer Kim Irvine, and me, we represent 128 years creating Disney park entertainment and fun for literally billions of guests around the world." Marty Skalar<BR/><BR/>Isn’t it Marty who also defended the design of California Adventure when it opened? Isn’t it Tony who castrated Tomorrowland, put the Asto Orbitor in the hub of Disneyland ruining the scale of Sleeping Beauty Castle? And wasn’t it Kim who changed the Sleeping Beauty Castle colors to looks like a plastic princess Barbie toy? Yes, I trust all of them to follow the original integrity of it’s a small world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com